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	<title>Comments on: The Tragedy of Steel</title>
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	<link>http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/95/the-tragedy-of-steel</link>
	<description>My thoughts on Delphi programming in general, and particularly on the technical aspects of developing the TURBU engine and editor.</description>
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		<title>By: Ken Knopfli</title>
		<link>http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/95/the-tragedy-of-steel/comment-page-1#comment-198</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Knopfli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/?p=95#comment-198</guid>
		<description>@Mason Wheeler: Knowing about the division of labour does not help if there are not enough people. Ancient cities had populations of around 10000 people. You would need to sacrifice a large portion of that population just to mine and transport the ore, let alone producing large amounts of steel.

It is also a question of demand. What would they have done with a pile of metal? They needed swords, shears, knives and plows. That&#039;s about it. And alternative metals existed.

Many family names such as Miller, Cooper and Schumacher testify to the fact that until very recently, trades tended to stay in families. This was because it took long to pass on the skills needed to do the job. For normal people dying on average at age of 35 and wives being lost in childbirth, an education took too much economically active time from their lives. Reading and writing was for priests who dedicated their lives to that. Passing skills down from father to son was quicker, convenient, and more importantly, guaranteed income.

And even if they did write steelmaking skills down. In what language would it be done, on what would they write them and how permanent would those records be? And having done that, how would this knowledge be distributed?

I think you have a simplistic view of the ancient world. Life back then was about survival.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mason Wheeler: Knowing about the division of labour does not help if there are not enough people. Ancient cities had populations of around 10000 people. You would need to sacrifice a large portion of that population just to mine and transport the ore, let alone producing large amounts of steel.</p>
<p>It is also a question of demand. What would they have done with a pile of metal? They needed swords, shears, knives and plows. That&#8217;s about it. And alternative metals existed.</p>
<p>Many family names such as Miller, Cooper and Schumacher testify to the fact that until very recently, trades tended to stay in families. This was because it took long to pass on the skills needed to do the job. For normal people dying on average at age of 35 and wives being lost in childbirth, an education took too much economically active time from their lives. Reading and writing was for priests who dedicated their lives to that. Passing skills down from father to son was quicker, convenient, and more importantly, guaranteed income.</p>
<p>And even if they did write steelmaking skills down. In what language would it be done, on what would they write them and how permanent would those records be? And having done that, how would this knowledge be distributed?</p>
<p>I think you have a simplistic view of the ancient world. Life back then was about survival.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Rice</title>
		<link>http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/95/the-tragedy-of-steel/comment-page-1#comment-197</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Rice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/?p=95#comment-197</guid>
		<description>Take a look at Against Intellectual Property or listen to it at http://mises.org/media.aspx?action=author&amp;ID=301.  It is a patent lawyer&#039;s argument that any IP interferes with the progress that free societies would make in the absence of IP law.

Ideas and methods aren&#039;t scarce.  IP law artificially makes them scarce to the detriment of us all.

And it isn&#039;t businessmen who make patent and copyright law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take a look at Against Intellectual Property or listen to it at <a href="http://mises.org/media.aspx?action=author&#038;ID=301" rel="nofollow">http://mises.org/media.aspx?action=author&#038;ID=301</a>.  It is a patent lawyer&#8217;s argument that any IP interferes with the progress that free societies would make in the absence of IP law.</p>
<p>Ideas and methods aren&#8217;t scarce.  IP law artificially makes them scarce to the detriment of us all.</p>
<p>And it isn&#8217;t businessmen who make patent and copyright law.</p>
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		<title>By: Mason Wheeler</title>
		<link>http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/95/the-tragedy-of-steel/comment-page-1#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>Mason Wheeler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/?p=95#comment-192</guid>
		<description>Ken:  So in other words, you need an established civilization that knows about specialization, division of labor, and city-building.  All of this was well-established in plenty of different places by the 14th century BC.  A quick glance a Wikipedia&#039;s entry for that century mentions Greeks, Egyptians, Assyrians, Hittites, Chinese and a reference to Hindu culture in India.

Jim:  The main point of my example is that &quot;valueless steel is far more valuable than valuable steel.&quot;  As you say, patents provided a protection so that the knowledge became publicly available.  But the concepts of &quot;protection&quot; and &quot;publicly available&quot; are somewhat at odds with each other.  What matters to society is the publicly available knowledge.  That was the genius of the British patent system: patents produce the incentive to innovate, then expire after a few years so the knowledge passes into the public domain to benefit everyone.  The same was true of copyright.

WAS true.  Over the last few decades, publishers, (the very people Parliament established the first copyright law explicitly to protect people against,) have been lobbying successfully for a steady increase in the scope and protective duration of copyright law, twisting it into an Orwellian parody of the original concept.  The ACTA is a continuation of this trend, and it will make the needed reforms, which mostly consist of reversals of existing laws such as the DMCA, that much more difficult to accomplish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken:  So in other words, you need an established civilization that knows about specialization, division of labor, and city-building.  All of this was well-established in plenty of different places by the 14th century BC.  A quick glance a Wikipedia&#8217;s entry for that century mentions Greeks, Egyptians, Assyrians, Hittites, Chinese and a reference to Hindu culture in India.</p>
<p>Jim:  The main point of my example is that &#8220;valueless steel is far more valuable than valuable steel.&#8221;  As you say, patents provided a protection so that the knowledge became publicly available.  But the concepts of &#8220;protection&#8221; and &#8220;publicly available&#8221; are somewhat at odds with each other.  What matters to society is the publicly available knowledge.  That was the genius of the British patent system: patents produce the incentive to innovate, then expire after a few years so the knowledge passes into the public domain to benefit everyone.  The same was true of copyright.</p>
<p>WAS true.  Over the last few decades, publishers, (the very people Parliament established the first copyright law explicitly to protect people against,) have been lobbying successfully for a steady increase in the scope and protective duration of copyright law, twisting it into an Orwellian parody of the original concept.  The ACTA is a continuation of this trend, and it will make the needed reforms, which mostly consist of reversals of existing laws such as the DMCA, that much more difficult to accomplish.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Knopfli</title>
		<link>http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/95/the-tragedy-of-steel/comment-page-1#comment-181</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Knopfli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/?p=95#comment-181</guid>
		<description>If you are producing steel, you are not farming or hunting for your proportion of food.

It needed a time where societies became large enough and could afford to sacrifice enough people to specialize in science, industry and non-food production in general.

As an aside, it will be interesting to see how the world copes with maintaining the entire infrastructure we now take for granted once population numbers begin to fall again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you are producing steel, you are not farming or hunting for your proportion of food.</p>
<p>It needed a time where societies became large enough and could afford to sacrifice enough people to specialize in science, industry and non-food production in general.</p>
<p>As an aside, it will be interesting to see how the world copes with maintaining the entire infrastructure we now take for granted once population numbers begin to fall again.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim McKeeth</title>
		<link>http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/95/the-tragedy-of-steel/comment-page-1#comment-178</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim McKeeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 01:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/?p=95#comment-178</guid>
		<description>Mason, your example argues against your point: Steel was kept a trade secret and didn&#039;t help mankind until patents provided a protection so that it became publicly available.  That is the whole point of your story &quot;patents are good.&quot;  Per the link you provided, ACTA is designed to create international standards on intellectual property - in other words providing the wonderful benefits of patents you outlined to other countries.

A better post would have been to outline some of the damage the DMCA has done, and point out how ACTA extends them.  For example take a look at this article about the &quot;12 Dangerous and unintended consequences of the DMCA&quot; http://techdirt.com/articles/20100304/0432108414.shtml</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mason, your example argues against your point: Steel was kept a trade secret and didn&#8217;t help mankind until patents provided a protection so that it became publicly available.  That is the whole point of your story &#8220;patents are good.&#8221;  Per the link you provided, ACTA is designed to create international standards on intellectual property &#8211; in other words providing the wonderful benefits of patents you outlined to other countries.</p>
<p>A better post would have been to outline some of the damage the DMCA has done, and point out how ACTA extends them.  For example take a look at this article about the &#8220;12 Dangerous and unintended consequences of the DMCA&#8221; <a href="http://techdirt.com/articles/20100304/0432108414.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://techdirt.com/articles/20100304/0432108414.shtml</a></p>
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		<title>By: delphigeist</title>
		<link>http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/95/the-tragedy-of-steel/comment-page-1#comment-177</link>
		<dc:creator>delphigeist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/?p=95#comment-177</guid>
		<description>Now this makes some sense to me, yes I fully agree with this comment!

DG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now this makes some sense to me, yes I fully agree with this comment!</p>
<p>DG</p>
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		<title>By: Mason Wheeler</title>
		<link>http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/95/the-tragedy-of-steel/comment-page-1#comment-176</link>
		<dc:creator>Mason Wheeler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 12:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/?p=95#comment-176</guid>
		<description>Delphigeist:

How is that in agreement with Xepol?  It sounds like you&#039;re arguing my side.  Patents and copyrights, as originally conceived, are good because they encourage people to come up with new, useful ideas that can end up benefiting everyone.  I agree wholeheartedly with that.

What&#039;s bad and needs to be stopped is the abuse of patent and copyright laws to suppress innovation, competition, and people&#039;s rights, and also the slow scope creep of these laws&#039; protection periods, which was originally expired after only a few years and is now moving slowly towards perpetual coverage so that nothing ends up in the public domain.  That doesn&#039;t benefit society, and it turns the copyright and patent holders from benefactors to parasites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Delphigeist:</p>
<p>How is that in agreement with Xepol?  It sounds like you&#8217;re arguing my side.  Patents and copyrights, as originally conceived, are good because they encourage people to come up with new, useful ideas that can end up benefiting everyone.  I agree wholeheartedly with that.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s bad and needs to be stopped is the abuse of patent and copyright laws to suppress innovation, competition, and people&#8217;s rights, and also the slow scope creep of these laws&#8217; protection periods, which was originally expired after only a few years and is now moving slowly towards perpetual coverage so that nothing ends up in the public domain.  That doesn&#8217;t benefit society, and it turns the copyright and patent holders from benefactors to parasites.</p>
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		<title>By: delphigeist</title>
		<link>http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/95/the-tragedy-of-steel/comment-page-1#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>delphigeist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 05:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/?p=95#comment-174</guid>
		<description>Hi Mason,
I have to agree with Xepol.
(off topic, maybe?)If you look back in the past 30 or 60 years you can see a acceleration in our modern technology and I believe more than 90% of the ideas where patented if not more, furthermore patenting intellectual most likely that will help the mankind, i.e. if I where to invent a quantum computer that will change everything that we know about binary PC today and patent the technology, I believe others will try hard to replicate it, so hard that they might come up with a way better technology or solution(s) to other problems.
Bottom line, encourage others to do what you patented or even better(most likely), I believe the best example can be: Windows, Mac OS and Linux...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mason,<br />
I have to agree with Xepol.<br />
(off topic, maybe?)If you look back in the past 30 or 60 years you can see a acceleration in our modern technology and I believe more than 90% of the ideas where patented if not more, furthermore patenting intellectual most likely that will help the mankind, i.e. if I where to invent a quantum computer that will change everything that we know about binary PC today and patent the technology, I believe others will try hard to replicate it, so hard that they might come up with a way better technology or solution(s) to other problems.<br />
Bottom line, encourage others to do what you patented or even better(most likely), I believe the best example can be: Windows, Mac OS and Linux&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mason Wheeler</title>
		<link>http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/95/the-tragedy-of-steel/comment-page-1#comment-172</link>
		<dc:creator>Mason Wheeler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/?p=95#comment-172</guid>
		<description>Hmm?  What part of what I wrote is &quot;absurdly oversimplified?&quot;  I could have gone into a much more detailed explanation of pretty much any point I covered, but the post was more than long enough already.  Making vague disparaging comments with no details or actual substance doesn&#039;t help anything either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm?  What part of what I wrote is &#8220;absurdly oversimplified?&#8221;  I could have gone into a much more detailed explanation of pretty much any point I covered, but the post was more than long enough already.  Making vague disparaging comments with no details or actual substance doesn&#8217;t help anything either.</p>
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		<title>By: Xepol</title>
		<link>http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/95/the-tragedy-of-steel/comment-page-1#comment-171</link>
		<dc:creator>Xepol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tech.turbu-rpg.com/?p=95#comment-171</guid>
		<description>absurd oversimplifcations of complex situations do not help your side of the argument - it just paints the entire group as facile and not worth considering seriously at best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>absurd oversimplifcations of complex situations do not help your side of the argument &#8211; it just paints the entire group as facile and not worth considering seriously at best.</p>
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